Would you possibly do an episode that covers the rise of Maoist China? I was especially wanting to know about the period of the Great Leap Forward and the resulting famine. My ex-wife’s parents lived through it but we were divorced before I ever had the idea to ask Ze or Nan (my ex-inlaws) about their experiences during it. Your work concerning Poland/Ukraine/Romania/Russia in The Anti-Humans got me more curious about what happened in China.
I have been reading books on the rise of Maoist China and the Cultural Revolution. I'm working through Dikotter's trilogy now, and I've got The World Turned Upside Down, The Killing Wind, and Tombstone queued up on the shelf. But China intimidates me. For some reason Chinese history seems more opaque to me than that of the Aztecs or Incas. It will take a while for me to get past that, and have the confidence to speak on the matter. In the meantime, check out Dikotter's books, they're great so far.
Lives in China for a few years and read constantly before during and after those years, looking to get a grip on the national character. Suggest Gavin Menzis "1421: the Year China Discovered America" as one window into a major transition period that informs a lot of the way Chinese see themselves today. You'd like Menzis, he was a career Submarine Captain with a lot of experience looking at coast-lines from 12 feet above the waves, precisely the perspective that early mapmakers had. Other big components helpful in understanding China include events that have contributed greatly to the contemporary national character and risen to the level of something like national myths might include the Opium wars, the Long March, the Taiping revolution, and an understanding of the vast administrative network built around the rigorous examinations needed to select qualified scholar/administrators. Understanding the power and extent of the eunuch bureaucracy, and the astounding detail of convention and ritual at play in the Forbidden City, are also very central.
Listening to Laszlo Montgomery's The China History Podcast helps a lot on Chinese history and culture in my opinion though that's coming from an American. Montgomery began studying Mandarin and Chinese history in 1979 at the University of Illinois. For twenty-five years, he has worked for China consumer product manufacturers, helping them build market shares in the U.S. Part of his China career brought him to Hong Kong for nine years beginning in 1989....
Also Can’t Get You Out of My Head Documentary by former BBC Producer Adam Curtis first few episodes talks about Mao Zedong's wife (that lady was NUTS!). I gave me a different perspective when everything I'd heard before centered only around Mao Zedong.
Man, I can tell you first hand that Chinese history is so fundamentally wrapped up in cultural norms and practices that are so old and ingrained that the challenge you speak of is very real. It would be like asking you or I why do we value, say, individual freedom, but if somehow we lived a couple thousand years in the future (and assuming America was somehow still a thing): we don't know, we just do. That's why I've found China's permutation of communism so strange and interesting above all the others. Granted, that's personal bias thanks to family and exposure and all that, but the notion of there being "communism with Chinese characteristics" really isn't a lie.
Not sure the policy on posting other podcasts here, but the podcast "Real Dictators" did an excellent 3 part series on Mao with episode 2 dealing with "The Great Leap Forward" and 3 dealing with "The Cultural Revolution."
We have all seen the numbers who died, but the podcast really captured the unparalleled brutality of the Mao regime.
Would love to hear Darryl's take on Mao, but until then that podcast is very, very good.
That looks like an interesting one, thanks! I’ve been enjoying Lazlow Montgomery’s “The China History” podcast. Here are a couple of relevant episodes.
I’m a new listener, Mr. Cooper caught me with the Nietzsche & Dostoyevsky episode, but I would very much hope that links to other podcasts would be welcome here. He’s only one man after all and can’t explain everything to us.
Cooper's episodes on "How to Serve Man - Sacrifice and Cannibalism" series (7-9) were some of the best podcast episodes I've ever listened to in my life. Really expanded my perspective of humanity and got to one of the fundamental core essences of what it means to be human. Highly recommend anyone to listen.
I've wanted to do an episode (series, really) on Mao and his policies for a long time now, peppered with interviews from in-laws (my partner is Chinese American and her mother lives with us; her parents were among those paraded through the streets during the Cultural Revolution and some of their relatives starved to death during the GLF), but honestly, because there are many family members still currently living in China (and knowing for a fact that one has a file on him in the Ministry of State Security, long story and not mine to tell) I probably never will, since...well, it's kind of hard not to come away from the story of Mao without a bitter taste and as small potatoes as my own podcast is, I don't feel like being responsible even for the possibility of state retribution.
That said, I still have a series about the fall of the Qing Dynasty being kicked around in my head.
Great suggestion, but if we ask for a series on China, don't we run the danger of sending Mr. Cooper off into a reading binge that would leave us without content for months, if not years?
(meant as a compliment to his thoroughness and a very slight attempt at humor)
I have been preparing to do this for a while now. Been laying the reading groundwork for about two years. I've got the series on the American labor movement that will keep me occupied for a while, but the Troubles is on a short list for what comes next.
I'm over halfway done reading this, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45015867-say-nothing , so far so good and I've learned a lot. Though my knowledge of The Troubles consisted of just a few movies and documentaries. I as well would love to hear DC's take on the troubles.
I debated posting this request since you didn't ask, but would you please NOT to discuss current event culture war stuff?
I had to quit some great Substacks that started off quite good, but soon devolved into brain dead culture war garbage. I tried to just ignore it, but once it infected the topics like some poisonous weed it eventually destroyed everything. If I wanted culture war, I would watch cable news. I come here to get away from that.
I'm sorry if I sound defensive. I'm just exhausted by it and really appreciate that you focus on ideas rather than what offends you.
I hope this is taken in the spirit it was intended. Thanks
I trust Darryl won't get sucked into the current culture war garbage. But I will say I learned a ton from his series on Jim Jones. Amazing how the leftists movements of the 60's and 70's seemed to have reconstituted again recently. I was much more informed as these movements seemed to get oxygen again.
I thought the same thing. I agree I don't want anything ideological but some stuff on the "roots" of how why people think the way to they do, left and right would be interesting... if you can make it interesting.
There is some interesting material out there that contends that people are actually hardwired to beliefs that are left or right. Through the Wormhole Season 6, Episode 6 'Are we all Bigots' which explores the workings of the brain in terms of bias, impulse and tribalism. It is very enlightening.
Howdy Darryl, have you considered posting a list of books you have read/recommendations?
Since the price of most colleges these days far outweighs the benefits of the education they provide, I've made it my goal to try and educate myself through reading. Unfortunately, I don't know what I don't know, and your podcasts have turned me on to so many different books and subjects (Melian dialogue, Days of Rage, Bloodlands, etc) that I would have never given the time of day beforehand. I cannot imagine that I am the only listener who could benefit from a proper reading list.
I'm ecstatic for you to be covering the labor movement, the topic deserves the depth that you provide!
Sounds like a great idea, mind you, my reading list is about as long as my arm, however always happy to add to it! Storage is seriously becoming an issue as I prefer reading a physical book rather than e-books.
Like a lot of people here I’m sure, my introduction to you was Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem. It was amazing, many times over recommended to others. Can you talk a bit about to your experience with feedback after it came out? Anytime you approach conversation re: Israel/Palestine, there tend to be…strong feelings from organized groups. Can you talk about the response that you got post-release and does that response shape any of the feelings you arrived at during your research and reading while creating the series?
You are always going to displease some people when you wade into a controversial subject. But to be honest, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. Even people who are ideologically committed to one side and disagreed with my portrayal or emphasis at certain points generally seemed to appreciate the sincere effort to play it straight and understand both sides. I got an email from an active duty IDF soldier who told me that the series changed the way he looked at the Palestinians he interacted with on a regular basis. I've gotten many emails from Arabs in surrounding countries who said that the series made them more understanding of the situation of the Jews in Europe. That's some good feels.
Follow up question: This is an incredibly hopeful response that you received and it gives me a bit of optimism. Do you think history is an effective tool toward solving cultural and political problems? Do you think many of the current problems in the US stem from a lack of detailed, balanced history in the cultural consciousness?
Put it this way: I think History is very useful in building empathy and understanding between people. The more you understand a thing, the harder it is to have black-and-white feelings about it.
I was living and working in the middle east when I discovered this. I recommended it to several Arab friends who admitted it was a fair account. Of course, they still all hate the Jews.
I second this. I have had several people suggest that this series and the God's Socialist series contained biases (which I still cannot hear). Does that stuff roll off your back?
After listening to your most recent podcast with Jocko, I’d love to hear you talk more about the (non-classified) capabilities of the major modern militaries including the US, UK, China, Russia, etc. I’d also love to hear you discuss anything Cold War related. Thanks!
Interesting idea, although I would have to do some research or bring in an expert to discuss certain elements of land warfare & fighter capabilities. I'm well-versed in our naval, strike, and air defense capabilities relative to our allies and major competitors, but I'd need some backup on the rest.
"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."
Related: how do complex, specialized, bureaucratic states develop, and do they inevitably collapse under their own weight as they show diminishing returns? And how does all this manifest in culture and social conflict?
This is not a question I can answer in a comment thread, but it's one of the 2-3 questions I've obsessed over more than any other for the last 15 years or so. Highly recommend Francis Fukuyama's 2-volumes: The Origins of Political Order, and Political Order & Political Decay.
If you want to go straight to one of the sources, look into Max Weber.
I discuss this piecemeal in some earlier podcasts, but it deserves a full treatment. I will put it on the list.
Well, that's going to be an awesome series. And thanks for the book reccs. Your posting the Babel story below already has me thinking ahead. I learned that story as a tale about hubris and an ancient explanation for the variety of language. Now I'm wondering if it's a warning about how the structures and technologies that create state power also end up dividing people until they lose the ability to communicate and turn on one another. I think it was your episodes on the Aztecs that kicked my brain into looking for cultural narratives. I appreciate that about your work: it's challenging, and it has enough heft to change minds.
Any chance you'd be interested in doing a podcast on the French Revolution? Always been fascinated by it and it does have some significance to our current times.
It's a great subject, but I probably won't do it for a while since Mike Duncan seems to have done a good job (I admit I haven't heard it... I know, wtf...)
Duncan does a decent job as a history popularizer, but his scholarship can be lacking at times. He makes the common mistake of trying to shape history through his own left wing politics.
His Russian Revolution series especially has a lot of issues.
Duncan fumbled the ball at the one yard line, concluding the series with a thesis contradicted by most the revolutions he covered. French, Mexican, and Bolivian revolutions are still worth a listen. And History of Rome will always be amazing.
"History is - often as not - our present values projected onto the past." I don't know who said that (and I probably mangled the quote a little), but it refers to the practice of "presentism", which is when some one (usually a historian) looks at the past with the values of a modern person rather than a person alive at that time.
Duncan (and many many others) did the same thing when discussing the American Revolution, particularly the institution of slavery. We in our modern society rightly view slavery as an abomination, but that is an extremely recent development. The Founding Fathers who were abolitionists were actually ahead of their time by quite a few generations, and I don't think it's fair to hold those who weren't to our modern standard - even if some of their contemporaries were fairly close to our current understanding.
After all, modern Western man has lived in a world of abolition for more or less 150 years. Meanwhile, the Founding Fathers were living in a world of slavery that stretched way back into the murky dark of pre-history. To be an abolitionist was extremely abnormal at the time, and would remain that way for several more generations.
In summary, the Founding Fathers (whether pro-slavery or anti-slavery) were visionaries who were pushing the bounds of Western civiliation and overthrowing centuries of monarchy to establish something wholey new. I don't think it's fair to criticize those who would not abolish slavery (one of the oldest human institutions, perhaps only prostitution is older) considering just how many other ancient institutions they were busy overthrowing at the time.
Dead on. I recently read Ordinary Men and it changed how I view human behavior in just about every historical and modern context: most people are conformists that want to fit in and are either incapable or unwilling to go against the current, and many also will violate their consciences in order to confirm with an authority figure’s commands or wishes.
Yes to the French Revolution, but maybe also into the Napoleonic era. Given the American penchant for seeing France as a weak military power (Freedom Fries!), I don't run into a lot of people who know that France was, before the late 1800's and the world wars, widely considered to be end-all of land warfare and military engineering. Our academy-trained US Civil War generals learned French at West Point, along with Napoleonic tactics (they remembered the latter perhaps a bit too well).
Related note: an episode on the Foreign Legion would be amazing. Particularly the rebellion in Algiers. That's some crazy stuff right there.
How do your organize your notes surrounding a topic you want to cover? You consume a ton of material and knowledge compounds and builds on itself along with mental connections and then practically speaking what's your production organization look like?
If I'm doing a podcast/series about a story (like the history of Zionism, or My Lai, etc) as opposed to one that's just riffing on a topic, what I do is read all of the general histories I can find. Then I'll read the one I think is the best again, and sometimes again and again, until the main outline of the primary story is embedded in my brain. By then, I will have a lot of questions. I don't have to brainstorm them, they become obvious over time. They keep nagging at me as I read, distracting me and making me want to go off on barely-related tangents. And I start drilling into those questions, and my exploration of them usually provides the emphases and structure of the main story - e.g., in the Jim Jones series, why the student protest and civil rights movements gave way to violent terrorism.
As far as nitty gritty, I use a modified version of the Zettelkasten method to organize my notes/thoughts. Starting that was a huge game changer for me, and the difference between when I stick to it and when I don't is night and day.
Hope all is well. You [obviously] tackle a lot of very dark subjects in your podcasting work. I've always wondered:
1. Since the beginning of MM, has your outlook on humanity in general changed for the better or worse with the processing of all this difficult material, and if for the better, what do you think accounts for that, or what do you do to balance all of the darkness?
2. Do you have a criteria for "satisfying your own curiosity"? It may differ w/ each topic, but a hallmark of your series is the tendency to dive very deeply into the subjects, with the occasional [very lengthy] "tangent" being a feature, not a bug, and not always arguably even a tangent. Maybe more simply put, you seem not satisfied by simple answers, and just wondering what your threshold is for personally feeling like you grasp the complexity of a topic, or where you feel like there's further to go [i.e. more tangents, but don't have the time, etc...]
3. If you could have two hours to talk with any single figure you've covered in any of your work, who would it be and what would you ask them? [assume things like language / their potentially being dead / etc aren't an issue].
4. Second all the below process questions about finding the sheer time to take in, synthesize the stuff, and figure out how to put it together in a compelling narrative; specifically those about criteria for what gets cut / what doesn't.
5. Doubly second any questions re: MM reading lists
Sorry; as a tack-on to #1, how have your own values changed [or not] - i.e. what you think is important in life - during the course of your journey through this material? Is part of the decision to keep going with the podcast a desire to educate people and stall the repeat/rhyming of history, given the similarities in the themes [eg so much of the marxist/communist stuff seems to pop up under different names at different times in history, etc]?
Let me add some 'bookends' (time-wise) to Karl's comment :)
Newer than Tainter -- Samo Burja is diving into this stuff (his youtube is a good place to start, esp the Big Ideas playlist).
Older than Tainter -- reading Oswald Spengler ( /watching the 2 hour youtube talk by John David Ebert on him & his ideas) is also interesting in this realm of consideration.
I know you said the recent Nietzche/Dostoyevsky podcast was a bit out of your comfort zone, but honestly I think it was one of your best so far. Made me wonder what else you think we really ought to be reading but probably aren’t?
What are your thought on religion? I personally am a newly confirmed Catholic which funny enough was actually started from reading Dostoevsky. If it is too personal no worries!
Would you possibly do an episode that covers the rise of Maoist China? I was especially wanting to know about the period of the Great Leap Forward and the resulting famine. My ex-wife’s parents lived through it but we were divorced before I ever had the idea to ask Ze or Nan (my ex-inlaws) about their experiences during it. Your work concerning Poland/Ukraine/Romania/Russia in The Anti-Humans got me more curious about what happened in China.
I have been reading books on the rise of Maoist China and the Cultural Revolution. I'm working through Dikotter's trilogy now, and I've got The World Turned Upside Down, The Killing Wind, and Tombstone queued up on the shelf. But China intimidates me. For some reason Chinese history seems more opaque to me than that of the Aztecs or Incas. It will take a while for me to get past that, and have the confidence to speak on the matter. In the meantime, check out Dikotter's books, they're great so far.
Lives in China for a few years and read constantly before during and after those years, looking to get a grip on the national character. Suggest Gavin Menzis "1421: the Year China Discovered America" as one window into a major transition period that informs a lot of the way Chinese see themselves today. You'd like Menzis, he was a career Submarine Captain with a lot of experience looking at coast-lines from 12 feet above the waves, precisely the perspective that early mapmakers had. Other big components helpful in understanding China include events that have contributed greatly to the contemporary national character and risen to the level of something like national myths might include the Opium wars, the Long March, the Taiping revolution, and an understanding of the vast administrative network built around the rigorous examinations needed to select qualified scholar/administrators. Understanding the power and extent of the eunuch bureaucracy, and the astounding detail of convention and ritual at play in the Forbidden City, are also very central.
Listening to Laszlo Montgomery's The China History Podcast helps a lot on Chinese history and culture in my opinion though that's coming from an American. Montgomery began studying Mandarin and Chinese history in 1979 at the University of Illinois. For twenty-five years, he has worked for China consumer product manufacturers, helping them build market shares in the U.S. Part of his China career brought him to Hong Kong for nine years beginning in 1989....
https://chinahistorypodcast.libsyn.com/
https://www.chinafile.com/contributors/Laszlo-Montgomery
Also Can’t Get You Out of My Head Documentary by former BBC Producer Adam Curtis first few episodes talks about Mao Zedong's wife (that lady was NUTS!). I gave me a different perspective when everything I'd heard before centered only around Mao Zedong.
https://thoughtmaybe.com/cant-get-you-out-of-my-head/
The China History Podcast gave me such good insight into the history of the Silk Road. Laszlo really did a great job overall though.
Man, I can tell you first hand that Chinese history is so fundamentally wrapped up in cultural norms and practices that are so old and ingrained that the challenge you speak of is very real. It would be like asking you or I why do we value, say, individual freedom, but if somehow we lived a couple thousand years in the future (and assuming America was somehow still a thing): we don't know, we just do. That's why I've found China's permutation of communism so strange and interesting above all the others. Granted, that's personal bias thanks to family and exposure and all that, but the notion of there being "communism with Chinese characteristics" really isn't a lie.
This would be a great topic.
Not sure the policy on posting other podcasts here, but the podcast "Real Dictators" did an excellent 3 part series on Mao with episode 2 dealing with "The Great Leap Forward" and 3 dealing with "The Cultural Revolution."
We have all seen the numbers who died, but the podcast really captured the unparalleled brutality of the Mao regime.
Would love to hear Darryl's take on Mao, but until then that podcast is very, very good.
That looks like an interesting one, thanks! I’ve been enjoying Lazlow Montgomery’s “The China History” podcast. Here are a couple of relevant episodes.
Great Leap Forward
https://overcast.fm/+zbsRpbMqU
The first of 8 on the Cultural Revolution
https://overcast.fm/+zbsR1QPeI
I’m a new listener, Mr. Cooper caught me with the Nietzsche & Dostoyevsky episode, but I would very much hope that links to other podcasts would be welcome here. He’s only one man after all and can’t explain everything to us.
That looks fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing.
Cooper's episodes on "How to Serve Man - Sacrifice and Cannibalism" series (7-9) were some of the best podcast episodes I've ever listened to in my life. Really expanded my perspective of humanity and got to one of the fundamental core essences of what it means to be human. Highly recommend anyone to listen.
I've wanted to do an episode (series, really) on Mao and his policies for a long time now, peppered with interviews from in-laws (my partner is Chinese American and her mother lives with us; her parents were among those paraded through the streets during the Cultural Revolution and some of their relatives starved to death during the GLF), but honestly, because there are many family members still currently living in China (and knowing for a fact that one has a file on him in the Ministry of State Security, long story and not mine to tell) I probably never will, since...well, it's kind of hard not to come away from the story of Mao without a bitter taste and as small potatoes as my own podcast is, I don't feel like being responsible even for the possibility of state retribution.
That said, I still have a series about the fall of the Qing Dynasty being kicked around in my head.
I'd recommend Frank Dikotters books starting with Maos great Famine, intense but very thorough.
Great suggestion, but if we ask for a series on China, don't we run the danger of sending Mr. Cooper off into a reading binge that would leave us without content for months, if not years?
(meant as a compliment to his thoroughness and a very slight attempt at humor)
Second that. Just started a large biography on Mao. "Mao The Unknown Story"
+1. I can’t read enough books by myself to even begin to understand this.
Have you ever considered doing an episode or series on The Troubles in Northern Ireland?
I have been preparing to do this for a while now. Been laying the reading groundwork for about two years. I've got the series on the American labor movement that will keep me occupied for a while, but the Troubles is on a short list for what comes next.
I'm Irish and am both excited and nervous about your eventual coverage of The Troubles. Bring it on though! YTM
I would like to hear this too, get the perspective of someone outside the echo chamber that is Northern Ireland.
I'm over halfway done reading this, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45015867-say-nothing , so far so good and I've learned a lot. Though my knowledge of The Troubles consisted of just a few movies and documentaries. I as well would love to hear DC's take on the troubles.
Great book.
Second this. Would love to hear your take.
This would be fantastic.
I debated posting this request since you didn't ask, but would you please NOT to discuss current event culture war stuff?
I had to quit some great Substacks that started off quite good, but soon devolved into brain dead culture war garbage. I tried to just ignore it, but once it infected the topics like some poisonous weed it eventually destroyed everything. If I wanted culture war, I would watch cable news. I come here to get away from that.
I'm sorry if I sound defensive. I'm just exhausted by it and really appreciate that you focus on ideas rather than what offends you.
I hope this is taken in the spirit it was intended. Thanks
Do not fear.
I trust Darryl won't get sucked into the current culture war garbage. But I will say I learned a ton from his series on Jim Jones. Amazing how the leftists movements of the 60's and 70's seemed to have reconstituted again recently. I was much more informed as these movements seemed to get oxygen again.
I thought the same thing. I agree I don't want anything ideological but some stuff on the "roots" of how why people think the way to they do, left and right would be interesting... if you can make it interesting.
There is some interesting material out there that contends that people are actually hardwired to beliefs that are left or right. Through the Wormhole Season 6, Episode 6 'Are we all Bigots' which explores the workings of the brain in terms of bias, impulse and tribalism. It is very enlightening.
Correction, Season 6, Episode 1
Sounds to me like it's you focusing on what offends you instead of the ideas.
Howdy Darryl, have you considered posting a list of books you have read/recommendations?
Since the price of most colleges these days far outweighs the benefits of the education they provide, I've made it my goal to try and educate myself through reading. Unfortunately, I don't know what I don't know, and your podcasts have turned me on to so many different books and subjects (Melian dialogue, Days of Rage, Bloodlands, etc) that I would have never given the time of day beforehand. I cannot imagine that I am the only listener who could benefit from a proper reading list.
I'm ecstatic for you to be covering the labor movement, the topic deserves the depth that you provide!
Keep on keeping on,
Joe
I should start putting out a weekly podcast where I recommend and briefly describe a book or two or three.
Sounds like a great idea, mind you, my reading list is about as long as my arm, however always happy to add to it! Storage is seriously becoming an issue as I prefer reading a physical book rather than e-books.
I second that, would love to see a recommended reading list!
Or even just a bibliography; whatever you can throw together.
Like a lot of people here I’m sure, my introduction to you was Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem. It was amazing, many times over recommended to others. Can you talk a bit about to your experience with feedback after it came out? Anytime you approach conversation re: Israel/Palestine, there tend to be…strong feelings from organized groups. Can you talk about the response that you got post-release and does that response shape any of the feelings you arrived at during your research and reading while creating the series?
You are always going to displease some people when you wade into a controversial subject. But to be honest, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. Even people who are ideologically committed to one side and disagreed with my portrayal or emphasis at certain points generally seemed to appreciate the sincere effort to play it straight and understand both sides. I got an email from an active duty IDF soldier who told me that the series changed the way he looked at the Palestinians he interacted with on a regular basis. I've gotten many emails from Arabs in surrounding countries who said that the series made them more understanding of the situation of the Jews in Europe. That's some good feels.
Follow up question: This is an incredibly hopeful response that you received and it gives me a bit of optimism. Do you think history is an effective tool toward solving cultural and political problems? Do you think many of the current problems in the US stem from a lack of detailed, balanced history in the cultural consciousness?
Put it this way: I think History is very useful in building empathy and understanding between people. The more you understand a thing, the harder it is to have black-and-white feelings about it.
I was living and working in the middle east when I discovered this. I recommended it to several Arab friends who admitted it was a fair account. Of course, they still all hate the Jews.
I second this. I have had several people suggest that this series and the God's Socialist series contained biases (which I still cannot hear). Does that stuff roll off your back?
Mostly it does. You can't please everyone. But I do try to take good faith criticism seriously.
After listening to your most recent podcast with Jocko, I’d love to hear you talk more about the (non-classified) capabilities of the major modern militaries including the US, UK, China, Russia, etc. I’d also love to hear you discuss anything Cold War related. Thanks!
Interesting idea, although I would have to do some research or bring in an expert to discuss certain elements of land warfare & fighter capabilities. I'm well-versed in our naval, strike, and air defense capabilities relative to our allies and major competitors, but I'd need some backup on the rest.
Would be keen for this, especially considering the saber rattling that is happening between China and Taiwan.
Super excited for a reading list, as I’ve drawn a ton (informally) from your podcasts already and would be excited for more
And if book related stuff led into a 4.5 hour deep dive into Blood Meridian, well…I wouldn’t be upset
I'll pull my dogeared copy from the shelf.
I may be moving in this direction as well sometime in the next week or two, given McCarthy’s passing.
Can America/Americans dig themselves out of this progressive bureaucratic hole we’ve dug ourselves in to?
Dig? No. However:
"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."
Related: how do complex, specialized, bureaucratic states develop, and do they inevitably collapse under their own weight as they show diminishing returns? And how does all this manifest in culture and social conflict?
This is not a question I can answer in a comment thread, but it's one of the 2-3 questions I've obsessed over more than any other for the last 15 years or so. Highly recommend Francis Fukuyama's 2-volumes: The Origins of Political Order, and Political Order & Political Decay.
If you want to go straight to one of the sources, look into Max Weber.
I discuss this piecemeal in some earlier podcasts, but it deserves a full treatment. I will put it on the list.
Well, that's going to be an awesome series. And thanks for the book reccs. Your posting the Babel story below already has me thinking ahead. I learned that story as a tale about hubris and an ancient explanation for the variety of language. Now I'm wondering if it's a warning about how the structures and technologies that create state power also end up dividing people until they lose the ability to communicate and turn on one another. I think it was your episodes on the Aztecs that kicked my brain into looking for cultural narratives. I appreciate that about your work: it's challenging, and it has enough heft to change minds.
Now that I'm reading Fukuyama, I have another topic idea: Janissaries.
Any chance you'd be interested in doing a podcast on the French Revolution? Always been fascinated by it and it does have some significance to our current times.
It's a great subject, but I probably won't do it for a while since Mike Duncan seems to have done a good job (I admit I haven't heard it... I know, wtf...)
Duncan is a good story teller, but his more recent stuff has a little to much covid content for my tastes.
That said his french revolution series is pretty solid. There is a lot of content there though, he covers the whole thing, all 90yrs or so, of it.
I highly recommend the Revolutions Podcast by Mike Duncan. He did a whole series on the French Revolution in quite some depth.
Duncan does a decent job as a history popularizer, but his scholarship can be lacking at times. He makes the common mistake of trying to shape history through his own left wing politics.
His Russian Revolution series especially has a lot of issues.
Duncan fumbled the ball at the one yard line, concluding the series with a thesis contradicted by most the revolutions he covered. French, Mexican, and Bolivian revolutions are still worth a listen. And History of Rome will always be amazing.
"History is - often as not - our present values projected onto the past." I don't know who said that (and I probably mangled the quote a little), but it refers to the practice of "presentism", which is when some one (usually a historian) looks at the past with the values of a modern person rather than a person alive at that time.
Duncan (and many many others) did the same thing when discussing the American Revolution, particularly the institution of slavery. We in our modern society rightly view slavery as an abomination, but that is an extremely recent development. The Founding Fathers who were abolitionists were actually ahead of their time by quite a few generations, and I don't think it's fair to hold those who weren't to our modern standard - even if some of their contemporaries were fairly close to our current understanding.
After all, modern Western man has lived in a world of abolition for more or less 150 years. Meanwhile, the Founding Fathers were living in a world of slavery that stretched way back into the murky dark of pre-history. To be an abolitionist was extremely abnormal at the time, and would remain that way for several more generations.
In summary, the Founding Fathers (whether pro-slavery or anti-slavery) were visionaries who were pushing the bounds of Western civiliation and overthrowing centuries of monarchy to establish something wholey new. I don't think it's fair to criticize those who would not abolish slavery (one of the oldest human institutions, perhaps only prostitution is older) considering just how many other ancient institutions they were busy overthrowing at the time.
Dead on. I recently read Ordinary Men and it changed how I view human behavior in just about every historical and modern context: most people are conformists that want to fit in and are either incapable or unwilling to go against the current, and many also will violate their consciences in order to confirm with an authority figure’s commands or wishes.
Yes to the French Revolution, but maybe also into the Napoleonic era. Given the American penchant for seeing France as a weak military power (Freedom Fries!), I don't run into a lot of people who know that France was, before the late 1800's and the world wars, widely considered to be end-all of land warfare and military engineering. Our academy-trained US Civil War generals learned French at West Point, along with Napoleonic tactics (they remembered the latter perhaps a bit too well).
Related note: an episode on the Foreign Legion would be amazing. Particularly the rebellion in Algiers. That's some crazy stuff right there.
Absolutely seconding this. That'd be really cool
How do your organize your notes surrounding a topic you want to cover? You consume a ton of material and knowledge compounds and builds on itself along with mental connections and then practically speaking what's your production organization look like?
If I'm doing a podcast/series about a story (like the history of Zionism, or My Lai, etc) as opposed to one that's just riffing on a topic, what I do is read all of the general histories I can find. Then I'll read the one I think is the best again, and sometimes again and again, until the main outline of the primary story is embedded in my brain. By then, I will have a lot of questions. I don't have to brainstorm them, they become obvious over time. They keep nagging at me as I read, distracting me and making me want to go off on barely-related tangents. And I start drilling into those questions, and my exploration of them usually provides the emphases and structure of the main story - e.g., in the Jim Jones series, why the student protest and civil rights movements gave way to violent terrorism.
As far as nitty gritty, I use a modified version of the Zettelkasten method to organize my notes/thoughts. Starting that was a huge game changer for me, and the difference between when I stick to it and when I don't is night and day.
Wow, thanks for the detailed answer. Appreciate it and all your work!
This is a great question!
Hello Darryl,
Hope all is well. You [obviously] tackle a lot of very dark subjects in your podcasting work. I've always wondered:
1. Since the beginning of MM, has your outlook on humanity in general changed for the better or worse with the processing of all this difficult material, and if for the better, what do you think accounts for that, or what do you do to balance all of the darkness?
2. Do you have a criteria for "satisfying your own curiosity"? It may differ w/ each topic, but a hallmark of your series is the tendency to dive very deeply into the subjects, with the occasional [very lengthy] "tangent" being a feature, not a bug, and not always arguably even a tangent. Maybe more simply put, you seem not satisfied by simple answers, and just wondering what your threshold is for personally feeling like you grasp the complexity of a topic, or where you feel like there's further to go [i.e. more tangents, but don't have the time, etc...]
3. If you could have two hours to talk with any single figure you've covered in any of your work, who would it be and what would you ask them? [assume things like language / their potentially being dead / etc aren't an issue].
4. Second all the below process questions about finding the sheer time to take in, synthesize the stuff, and figure out how to put it together in a compelling narrative; specifically those about criteria for what gets cut / what doesn't.
5. Doubly second any questions re: MM reading lists
Thank you.
Sorry; as a tack-on to #1, how have your own values changed [or not] - i.e. what you think is important in life - during the course of your journey through this material? Is part of the decision to keep going with the podcast a desire to educate people and stall the repeat/rhyming of history, given the similarities in the themes [eg so much of the marxist/communist stuff seems to pop up under different names at different times in history, etc]?
Are all successful civilizations doomed to degenerate? Asking for a friend
Let me add some 'bookends' (time-wise) to Karl's comment :)
Newer than Tainter -- Samo Burja is diving into this stuff (his youtube is a good place to start, esp the Big Ideas playlist).
Older than Tainter -- reading Oswald Spengler ( /watching the 2 hour youtube talk by John David Ebert on him & his ideas) is also interesting in this realm of consideration.
Hahaha. Yes.
tell your friend to read Joseph Tainter
I know you said the recent Nietzche/Dostoyevsky podcast was a bit out of your comfort zone, but honestly I think it was one of your best so far. Made me wonder what else you think we really ought to be reading but probably aren’t?
Did your decision to "quit your day job" have anything to do with vaccine mandates?
And thanks love your work!
i would also be interested in your point of view, but your vaccine status is none of our business.
You dont have to disclose status to say mandates factored into employment decisions. Also he did say ask him Anything so...
Any plans on incorporating the now shutdown Decline of the West podcast into future episodes of Martyr Made?
and where can we find some of these lost episodes. They were so good
What are your thought on religion? I personally am a newly confirmed Catholic which funny enough was actually started from reading Dostoevsky. If it is too personal no worries!
The MartyrMade podcast helped propel me into the Orthodox Church. Especially episodes 7, 8, & 9.
Congratulations. Been a Latin Mass guy for about 8 years. Welcome aboard